Red Flags & Green Flags of Development

In this episode, Erica and Sam talk about some of the red flags and green flags of development. Tune in to learn about development models that can unintentionally cause harm and explore how you can become a more sustainable and community-oriented leader (the green flag we're all striving towards). 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello, my name is Sandra Mula.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

I'm Erika Asimwe, and you're listening to the Crossing the Raging River podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Hello, welcome back. Today we are ready to dive even deeper into what we were talking about. In our last episode, we covered a little bit why development projects fail. What do we have today? What do you have for us, Erica, today?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Today is actually personally one of my favorite uh themes when we are talking about this idea of letting communities lead. It's about understanding the models that people usually use when they're working to serve communities. And by community, I need to emphasize that the community can be the people you reach out to. It can be your team as well, you know, in your organization. It can be, if it's a school, it can be the teachers that you're working with. Community can be broad. It's any group of people that you're working with together that you are trying to do different things. So, what kind of models are we using when it comes to quote unquote solving problems for that community? So we'll be talking about that because it's important to understand how we do it. Yeah. Because the only way we can center and understand where we can improve is if we understand the different kinds of models that we are using.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Interesting. That sounds fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

It is, and I'm very excited because we're going to start with a game. You're going to help me to understand what these models are. And if you're listening, please also play along. So the game is called red flag, green flag. So if something sounds a little fishy and you're like, this doesn't sound right, you can say it's a red flag. Okay. And you can add a bit of an explanation if you have one. If not, you can say, I just know it's a red flag, and I'm convinced that it's a red flag. If it's a green flag, then you can let us know. It feels a bit warm, it feels like it makes sense. You can also let me know. Then later on, we're going to discuss why these are red flags or not. Red flags. Yeah, so the first thing, are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Yes, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

So you walk into a community and you already know the needs of that community and what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

That's a red flag.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Why do you think that's a red flag?

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Because the community is not involved, and you came with predetermined solutions to the needs of the community.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Okay, that sounds correct, but we are going to guess go through the models and we see whether that is yeah, right. So the second example, Sam, you go into a community, you find this young man, he's sitting, he's a graduate, papers, he's gone back to his home community and he said he's only lacking capital. If you give him capital, he's going to start a business. What do you think? Is that a red flag or a green?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

That's a red flag for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Why?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Um, at least they should begin with the little they have.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

They don't have anything.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

No, I don't believe in that. There is something. Maybe they could wait for something else, but that's a red flag for me for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Okay. We are going to see whether that's a red flag. Another one is you go into a community, you find a group of maybe youth or women already doing something, you join them and you do something together with them. You build a new project. Is that a red flag or a green flag?

SPEAKER_02 3:33

That's that's a green flag.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Why is it a green flag?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Because the community has started doing something.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yes, and you have joined them, and then you are doing something with them. So another example is there's a community somewhere where there has been flooding. You know, that happens quite a lot in different places. So the community sit together and they decide what we can do about this. So each community member contributes, this is what I can do. And the following day they come with the holes and everything they need to create the drainage system so that the water can go through. Is that a red flag or a green flag?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Green flag.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

When they didn't invite the government at all.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yes, because they are finding solutions within their own uh community by themselves.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yes, and that's what we are going to be discussing today. We'll be talking about why these are red flags because each and everything we have talked about, whether it's a red flag or a green flag, represents a model that we use when we are going to meet the challenges of the communities we are serving, or going to serve a community in one way or another.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Great. Yeah that sounds exciting. So please go ahead and take us through the models.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, I'm going to start with one model called the medical model, or the two development to the community, development to the people we are serving. So, in this, this is a common model actually used by organizations that are really trying to do things on large scale, you know, because we want to roll it out to everybody. We don't care whether they're they are red, black, yellow, everybody needs this solution. So we do research and we can even spend years doing research on this on this particular thing. And then we decide, oh, this worked. We try it out in one community and then we decide it works everywhere. So we go to community B and then we draw it out to millions of people because this is what is needed in that community. We don't consult them, we don't ask them if it's something that is necessary for them or not. We just know that it is important and we want it to go. So what happens under this approach is that the community is not involved at all. They are just receivers. They will wait for you to do everything. You are the one who brought the solution, you will explain it, you will bring the experts who are going to implement because they know nothing about that solution. They will implement it, you will pay for it. After paying for it, you are going to tell the people to love it. You also have to pay them to like it. Have you ever been to some programs where people are being paid to attend a training that is important for their own life?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

And that happens a lot. We have many organizations with huge budgets going to things that are not necessary. Inviting the people to come, we pay for them to come. Then we pay for our express, then we pay for the implementation and pay for transport allowance. We pay everything. And when we leave, do you know what happens?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

It ends there.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

It ends there.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

It will be like another story that was done. But it's not always bad. In some cases, it works, you know. In emergency situations, sometimes people use it and it works. Governments use it when they want to scale. But some of us we use it in our own organizations because we have maybe multi-country offices and we want to roll out the same thing in all the offices. We don't care. Even in Africa, we have people who are different. Even in one country, you can find 40 tribes.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Many different tribes.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So what you do in one community might not work in another community.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Why is that? Since it worked in community and it succeeded, why can't it succeed in community?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

People are different. Communities are different, resources are different that are needed. And people care about different things. You might be surprised that something you care most about. Sometimes you should ask yourself a question if nobody is doing something about this in this community. It's not always because of lack of knowledge. Sometimes it's because no, it's not care about it. They don't care. Yeah. And it's the sad reality. So, how do we partner with that community in a way that can help them to understand that? So that's the first model. And there are many examples we can give.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Which is too, they do something to the community.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, there are many examples we've gone, we've heard where they set up like markets for a community. You know, I I even have mental pictures of these markets in a community. They take these women who are selling from the streets and they say, if we only set up a market. I think this was a story that was shared in class.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

In our class, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

By by by a friend of ours from Uganda, yes, who said they tried to set up markets for the women who were selling on the streets.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

On the road, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Exactly. And that was a whole program they studied if we only set up markets. And what ended up happening to those markets?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

They never used it.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

They went right outside the market, and that's where the women were selling. So it's important to understand that communities are diverse, they have different things. We cannot just roll out the same thing and expect them to do it. But remember, if we are looking for sustainability, it's everything we are doing. If we bring the solution to them, we have to pay for it, and the community will not be able to own.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Interesting. What's the other model, Erica?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

The other model is actually one of the most used models. Development for it's also called the charity model.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

That one sounds nice for the people. They're really concerned about the people for them.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Guess how it starts, some. This is a very common model, and you know how projects start. How do they normally start?

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Needs assessment.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Exactly. You go to a community and you ask. That's the only difference between the two models.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

The two model and the four model.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

In the four model, the only difference is that we actually take time to ask them what they need. But that question, Sam, let me throw it back to you. What do you need?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Oh, lots of things. I need money, I need a good cow.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Lots of things that I what do you think about me as I'm asking you that question?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

When you ask me that what I need, uh definitely will think, oh, they're going to give me something or they're going to help me achieve my needs.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Exactly. Because the person who is asking is asking, and you're thinking, ah, they must have a solution for me. So in the minds of the people that we are serving, when we ask that question, immediately we are beginning to give them the idea that we have something for them. Why should you ask me this question when you're not going to do anything about it? So communities are they also step back, saying the person has asked me, now they are going to do something about it. And by the way.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

That means their own initiative dies the moment you ask.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Ask that question. So the first thing you ask in communities, we usually have this conversation with many leaders is that we feel like we can ask that question and then ask communities to contribute later. But that question itself has already conditioned the community to see you and to think about you in a particular way. So now they already see you as a provider. So now you have to do something about it. When you ask what do you need, then I need this and this, and you should be the one who gives it. And they do research, they know you.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

They know why you've come and what you are going to provide.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Exactly. So, but in the back of our minds, all of us, when we ask this question, many of us go when we already have a solution. Our organizations already have a building schools, organizations are already setting up wells. Yeah. We are already knowing. We are going to give high. What you care about most. So when I go and ask that question, I'm kind of in the back of my mind going to validate this solution I already have. So many of us go already with the solution, ask the question, and who makes the decision at the end of the day when they have given us all the challenges?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

It's me.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

It's you. So you're the one who has made the final decision. And because you are the one who has made the decision, who is paying for it? I am paying for it. You're going to pay for it, you're going to look for the people. And the community will step back and feel like, oh, these are people who have come. And in African culture, for sometimes we're very respectful. Even if we don't need something, we will take it. We would rather go and throw it in the back of our houses. But we will not say no to anything.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

This is not what we need.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

This is not what we need. Nobody is going to say that.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

And this is a development worker, you are taking the boxes, we distributed this and that. Exactly. And we've got people, whether people are going to use it, whether it's beneficial, it's a different story. Exactly. Unfortunately, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah. Have you ever heard of the famous quote? Uh, the one that people love, the one about uh teach a man how to fish. Don't give him a fish, teach a man how to to fish. Let's unpack that because that's very it's a very common statement that sometimes people use to validate the solutions.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah, if you want to feed a man for a day, give them give him a fish. If you want to feed them for a lifetime, teach him how to fish.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

So, what do you think is wrong with that statement if we were to unpack it a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Um, I think it comes back to the fore. You're teaching.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Who is teaching? It's you. It's you whose solution is it? Who's you know the thing we are saying we are talking about teaching them how to fish? But then we already have the fishing road, how they should fish, what kind of fish they should fish, and this is what is going to get them out of poverty. So we already have a solution. That's why we go and we find organizations running one program. For example, we go to a rural community where there is there are farmers, then we come with our tailoring project. Everybody should start sewing clothes. We train farmers how to sew clothes because we believe sewing clothes is going to get them out of poverty. Because I love sewing. I've been sewing all my life, and that's what has made me rich. So let me go and teach this community, everybody else to do it, but it's not contextual. Yeah. And everybody becomes do you know what ends up happening in that case? They ask you, can you now give me the road? Pay for the road, pay for this and that. You give it to them. If it's a sewing machine, you pay for it. The following day, if you are lucky, you find it.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

If it breaks, you are the one to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Or they sell it. Yeah, and that happened in our in one of our programs when we were training in the ABCD. We had a young lady come and and she said she has had a sewing machine that was given to her by another organization for three years that she has not used.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Wow. Wow. You know, so the full model is is not working as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Exactly. Because it's it's it's in engaging people only on their needs. When you engage people only on their needs, they are not being engaged to come up with a solution. And one of the ways to know that a community cares about something, Sam, is to know what they're investing in. If they just list it as a need, it might probably be something that they don't care about and have not done anything.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

That makes me anxious to know what's the solution. Then it looks like every model you're talking about. What's the third model about?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Well, we're we're going towards some better models now. So there is a with model where you work with the community, development with the community. So, so-called the co-creation model. Here is where you find people who are equally interested in what you're doing. For example, if you're an organization that is working in agriculture, you go and find local farmers in the community and co-create with them a solution. Now, for it to not be for, the solution has to be, you don't have to come with a predetermined solution.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

The solution the community already has the solution.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yes, you have to go with the community, and the solution comes when you are together with them and rises from both of you. But if you have come with a solution, just to get the community to love it, that's the form model. That's the full model because you've already built your solution. Yes. So the solution should arise from there, and because it's arising from the community, the community should contribute and you should contribute. But in some cases, we have organizations that say we are co-creating and they are funding 80% of it, doing everything. Maybe the community has the it doesn't end with the day they say this is the solution. Then you take over and do everything. Both of you should work equally to make that work. Every step, the community should work with you so that they understand. And when you are living the community, it will be sustainable because the community knows from step one how to do it. They contributed, every person in that community contributed at the design, at the implementation, and at the close of that program. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

That sounds the best for me now.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, it's a good model. It is.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

What's the fourth one then? Because this is the third. Yes, it's been getting better and better.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

So the third model, I want to ask you a question. We talked about the two model, we talked about the four model and the with model.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

The with model, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

What do you think is the fourth model about? Like, since all these are good, and who is the center of all this? Who is the person who is doing it?

SPEAKER_02 16:59

The development worker, the NGO.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yes, you can see that at every on all the three models, yes, the development workers or the NGOs is at the center. Or the church, whatever it is, is at the center. They are coming to steer everything. But in the last model, it's where the community themselves are building solutions for themselves. And there's so many things, Sam, that communities can do for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

And by themselves.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

By themselves. Fund it. We are not talking about here the community just saying we are doing this and doing that. This model is where communities sit together, mobilize resources. First of all, they choose what is the best solution for the things they care most about, because they care about something. Then they mobilize resources to make that work. They come together as a group and make and take action without relying on an external person. And then they invite us, not as the leaders, but as people who walk alongside them to support them. So this is actually the model that I think had been existing even before. I think before we were colonized in Africa, I don't want to always blame the colonial.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

So this is actually at the heart of ABCD.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

It is at the heart of asset-based community development. In Africa, I always argue, I might be on the extreme end. So for my listeners, I'm very passionate about this, but I think that there was no unemployment in Africa before we were colonized. Do you agree with me, Sam?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

I agree. It reminds me of a story I heard uh from the Pocot community in Kenya. And uh, so these um uh uh the the British came and uh you know during colonial times, and then they started taking them to schools. This is um a farming community, they took them, their children to schools, then got jobs, others finished school, they couldn't find jobs, and then they were back into the farming community. And one old man in a meeting said, excuse me, said, Yes, you found us here in our country, none of us lacked anything. We tailed our land, kept our animals, and there was no unemployment, just like you said. So um you guys took us to schools, and now there is unemployment. It's a new concept that we weren't aware of. So I agree with you, and uh, I think the the wisdom of the old man was um everyone was engaged in something, and so there was no unemployment indeed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah. So it's the same thing when we bring a solution to a community just to tie it out to colonialism before every young person, every person in our communities had a path. Of course, we would argue, there was gender, there would be many arguments about that. But there was a plan. A father would train a young child, and that child would take on the trade of the family. Each family had a trade. So there was no space of sitting and waiting. But then we were we we we were educated in this new system. Jobs were created that don't exist in our context. And now many of us are graduating. We have so many young people graduating in Africa who are unemployed, or young people now in communities in rural areas who relied on farming, who grew up in form in families where they were farming, not wanting to farm anymore.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

They don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Because somebody has come with something better. Everybody should look like this.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

And that better opportunity is not even available.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

It's not available. There's there's there's an example that one of our the co-facilitator of the abundant of the asset-based community development always likes to say, we are trying to get fish to climb trees. Like animals that are not meant to climb trees are now climbing trees. Now we will find so many of them at the bottom because they're not able to, they're physically not able to climb trees. So that's what happens when we are trying to force our solutions on people. They start to undervalue their resources, they look down on farming, which has always kept them, you know, because there's this new way of doing things. So the question I have for you, Sam, is it better for communities to sit and do nothing or do the little they can with what they have?

SPEAKER_02 21:21

They do the little they can uh with what they have, exactly. And that's the thinking of ABCD.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Exactly. But when you come into the community and you bring a solution, they then sit back and say, I'm not going to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So the ABCD is about how do we get communities to do what they can with the little they have.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

And one thing I always remind the leaders as we are coming to the to an end of this conversation is that it's not true that the day you walked into that community is the day that community changed.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

They were already leaving before you came.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Someone who is 40 years old has. Lived for 40 years without you in that community. And they are surviving because of you. It's not true. And if they are alive, this is what I want the leaders to take away from this episode. There is something right they are doing. And we can start from what is right. I'll end with the story because it's very important to always bring it home with the story. I know of a story of an organization that came and they were passionate about malnutrition. And as you know, this is an area where people bring solutions to Africa. They bring biscuits. If someone is in malnutrition, they have all these foods that have been designed in a particular place to bring them, and they come as aids to Africa, so many of them. And what ended up happening, they, that organization, were like, how sustainable is this going to be? How long? What about when we are not there? So they first wanted the communities to learn about what was working in that community. And they looked, yes, there were people who were malnourished, but there were some families that were thriving in that community. And they learned from what those families were doing. What were they putting on their plate? What were their habits? What are the good things that were working? And what they multiplied and what they scaled to that community was what was working. It is the sweet potatoes, the food that was grown in that community.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Which they knew how to grow and to prepare for their children.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

And guess who led that campaign?

SPEAKER_02 23:29

The people themselves.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Those families that were doing it.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Were doing it.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

From the community to the rest of the community, not from outside the community, into the community. So that's what we'll be talking about, how we can do that so that communities can own it. So they can see that this works within their own communities.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Thank you so much, Erica. So today we looked at uh the the four models, the two, the four, with, and by uh the different models. But um, from Erica's recommendation, buy determines everything and sustainability. And so, what do we have for our next episode?

SPEAKER_00 24:09

In our next episode, we'll be talking about how to choose that model. What situation should we be in to determine whether we're using two, for, with, or by? So that's what we'll be going into because they are all not bad, but the circumstances should determine what solution we use. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Thank you for joining us. For more episodes, please visit us on our website krumboka.org slash broadcast. And uh, we'll see you soon in our next episode.